the_last_resort | Belloq Log

If the story of your people is that Ilúvatar created you, I think that qualifies as your god. Are the Valar like angels, then? Spirits who serve as mediators between gods and morta-- [He remembers that Lindir is not mortal.] Between gods and those who dwell on earth?

[Lindir catches that, and does not like at all being mistaken for a mortal. He gives Belloq an annoyed look and stiffens up - but then he exhales and relaxes again.]

The Valar are the Powers of Arda, responsible for it's shaping...

[Lindir explains some about the Valar, which starts to become a little long winded...]

[Belloq listens closely. Knowing the cultures and mythologies of other peoples is important in his line of work.]

Do your people make statues of these spirits? [He gestures to the cult statue on display in the museum, using it as an example.] Or any other sort of relics?

[He suspects an elven artifact would be worth a small fortune to the right buyers.]

On occasion. The Noldor in particular are gifted in crafting, however not much has survived from the First Age.

Rarity and age make them all the more precious.

Indeed. Anything we have saved from the north is treasured... sometimes even our people.

[Lindir smiles slightly, thinking fondly of his lord and idol.]

But I have not walked there. I was born after that time, though sometimes I wish I could have seen Gondolin before it's fall.

So...you are a young immortal? [It's a strange notion to him. The idea of "immortal" goes hand in hand with "timeless" in his mind. The thought that, likes humans, some are old and some are young is novel.]

[Lindir crosses his arms behind his back casually, taking a moment to think about that. The question actually gave him pause.]

I would not say I am very old, but I am certainly not young. There are some who are much older than I, My Lord Elrond or the Lady Galadriel, for example. The oldest and wisest among us are few in Middle-earth, but there are many others in the Blessed Realm.

By the measure of Men, the Eldar mature in a century's time. I myself have lived for over 3453 years.

A century to mature! That's as long as a mortal man could hope to live, if he's very lucky.

[It still fascinates Belloq, and strikes a cord of envy inside him.]

The lives of mortals are indeed fleeting. Sometimes it is a sorrow to us, but I have not known many mortals in my time.

Where you are from...has it ever been possible for a mortal to become...less mortal?

[Lindir pauses a moment before speaking, because the concept was so absurd.]

Of course not.

A pity.

[Belloq would have liked a path to immortality, for himself or to sell, or both. Perhaps he'll simply have to seek the Grail someday. That would be an archaeological find to end all finds.]

So many cultures have stories of mortals achieving immortality, I though perhaps there was such a tale on your world, too.

I know it is much desired by some, but the Secondborn have the Gift of Men, which is a blessing in it's own right.

[He pauses.]

There are however, a few occasions in which those of Elven blood have become mortal. In particular Lúthien Tinúviel. Then there are the Half-Elven, who were able to choose which path they wished to walk. For example My Lord Elrond chose to live as the Eldar do, while his brother Elros walked the path of Men.

Edited 2014-08-15 08:54 (UTC)

Why on earth would a person choose to be mortal, given other options?

In most cases, for love.

[That does make Lindir smile a bit, even if it reminded him of the precarious situation with his lord's daughter.]

As for the Half-Elven who were given the choice, one must remember the Gift of Men. The lives of Men burn brightly and end quickly, however, they are blessed with the opportunity to be a part of the Second Music, after the end of all things.

The Eldar are bound to Arda and it's fate, while the fëar of Men will depart this world for a greater purpose that only Eru Ilúvatar knows.

The...fëar. [He repeats the unfamiliar word.]

Is that your people's word for soul or spirit, the essence that lives on after death?

It is all of oneself that is not of the body. In that way, yes, though it exists with or without death.

[Elves were immortal, after all.]

[Belloq takes all this in, constructing a mental map of the culture.]

Can your people die from wounds or sickness? Are they just unaging or are they completely invulnerable?

The Eldar do not suffer sickness as men do, and our bodies are more resistant to hurt or the elements.

We can be felled by great harm to the body, whether by battle, accident, or poison. As for age, once we mature we live the long summer of our lives from that moment on.

[He grows more intent now.]

What happens to the fëar of an Eldar when one dies in battle? If it cannot depart the world, as the fëar of men do, is it trapped on the earth? Like a ghost?

The fëar of those of my kind who fall in battle or some other tragedy, are called by the Valar Mandos to join him in his halls, in Aman... that is, the Undying Lands, or the Blessed Realm. Some there are re-embodied.

Those of us who yet live can chose to leave Middle-earth and depart on ships to sail there, as many of my kind do. I will also leave, one day when I am too weary of my troubles, but once you have set foot in the land of the Valar you cannot return.

What you describe sounds similar like the Underworld of Homer. The Greek king Odysseus sails far to the west and finds the edge of the lands of the dead. There he performs a blood sacrifice to call the souls of heroes to him and give them back their power of speech so he can confer with the seer Tiresias.

If none have returned from Aman, is it just taken on faith that the fëar of the fallen have been called there?

'Underworld?' Blood sacrifices? That sounds terrible...

[Lindir looks visibly disturbed. It takes him a moment to focus his thoughts to answer the question.]

Of course not. In the First Age, there was a time when travel between Aman and Middle-earth was permitted. There are those who have walked that blessed land and returned. The Lady Galadriel was even born there.

[He goes on to explain that due to the Numenorians (Men) and their jealousy of the Elves' immortality made sure that nobody could have nice things, and travel there now became a one-way trip for Elves only.]

To Homer the underworld was a terrible place, grim and dark for the good and the wicked alike. Even the great hero, Achilles, said that he would rather be a slave in the land of the living than king of all the dead. Life and glory was all one had. The dead were nothing but faint shades.

It was only later that the myth changed and a garden of paradise for the spirits of the worthy to enjoy for eternity was included in the underworld.

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please forgive me I rarely skip out on this stuff but tolkien is complicated...

np!

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technically there's an obscure case but it's not clear cut...

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there's also "fading" and some other stuff in regards to age, but it's all very unclear in canon.

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