the_last_resort | Belloq Log

A pity.

[Belloq would have liked a path to immortality, for himself or to sell, or both. Perhaps he'll simply have to seek the Grail someday. That would be an archaeological find to end all finds.]

So many cultures have stories of mortals achieving immortality, I though perhaps there was such a tale on your world, too.

I know it is much desired by some, but the Secondborn have the Gift of Men, which is a blessing in it's own right.

[He pauses.]

There are however, a few occasions in which those of Elven blood have become mortal. In particular Lúthien Tinúviel. Then there are the Half-Elven, who were able to choose which path they wished to walk. For example My Lord Elrond chose to live as the Eldar do, while his brother Elros walked the path of Men.

Edited 2014-08-15 08:54 (UTC)

"Their camps treated them a little better. Not a lot of French Jews. But they took about 2 million of you. With us? The Croats sold us out. Half a million of us murdered and 50,000 of those in Jasenovac.

"Trust me, you'll want out of that business when you go back. You get caught helping them and they hang you. I'm not even shitting you, man. They actually hand the people in on it if they have a good excuse." He claps a hand on his shoulder, hoping that the archeologist would see some sense. After all, it wasn't worth giving your life to someone who dicked over your people. Which may be the most principled thought he had in a while.

"Two million? That's almost as much as the entire population of Paris. Mon dieu." It rattled him, hearing the specifics, in a way that talk of coming war in the abstract didn't. And the thought of being hanged rattled him even more. He absently brought his hand to his neck to rub along his throat.

"When I return, perhaps I will have to reevaluate my employment. Maybe move to California, they have good weather there, and no one ever invades California."

Why on earth would a person choose to be mortal, given other options?

Niko isn't sure where California is. Maybe it's some place in the US. One of the middle states. Or what Canada used to be called? No one invades that and French people live there.

"Hey, from one morally questionable guy to another, alive is the best way to earn money. And not in jail."

"I can drink to that."

And he raised his glass.

"To staying alive. Truly the best way to live."

In most cases, for love.

[That does make Lindir smile a bit, even if it reminded him of the precarious situation with his lord's daughter.]

As for the Half-Elven who were given the choice, one must remember the Gift of Men. The lives of Men burn brightly and end quickly, however, they are blessed with the opportunity to be a part of the Second Music, after the end of all things.

The Eldar are bound to Arda and it's fate, while the fëar of Men will depart this world for a greater purpose that only Eru Ilúvatar knows.

The...fëar. [He repeats the unfamiliar word.]

Is that your people's word for soul or spirit, the essence that lives on after death?

Живели! Niko raised his glass, clinking them together, silently adding that was the case until he got tired of surviving, anyway. That wouldn't be bad.

It is all of oneself that is not of the body. In that way, yes, though it exists with or without death.

[Elves were immortal, after all.]

[Belloq takes all this in, constructing a mental map of the culture.]

Can your people die from wounds or sickness? Are they just unaging or are they completely invulnerable?

The Eldar do not suffer sickness as men do, and our bodies are more resistant to hurt or the elements.

We can be felled by great harm to the body, whether by battle, accident, or poison. As for age, once we mature we live the long summer of our lives from that moment on.

[He grows more intent now.]

What happens to the fëar of an Eldar when one dies in battle? If it cannot depart the world, as the fëar of men do, is it trapped on the earth? Like a ghost?

The fëar of those of my kind who fall in battle or some other tragedy, are called by the Valar Mandos to join him in his halls, in Aman... that is, the Undying Lands, or the Blessed Realm. Some there are re-embodied.

Those of us who yet live can chose to leave Middle-earth and depart on ships to sail there, as many of my kind do. I will also leave, one day when I am too weary of my troubles, but once you have set foot in the land of the Valar you cannot return.

What you describe sounds similar like the Underworld of Homer. The Greek king Odysseus sails far to the west and finds the edge of the lands of the dead. There he performs a blood sacrifice to call the souls of heroes to him and give them back their power of speech so he can confer with the seer Tiresias.

If none have returned from Aman, is it just taken on faith that the fëar of the fallen have been called there?

'Underworld?' Blood sacrifices? That sounds terrible...

[Lindir looks visibly disturbed. It takes him a moment to focus his thoughts to answer the question.]

Of course not. In the First Age, there was a time when travel between Aman and Middle-earth was permitted. There are those who have walked that blessed land and returned. The Lady Galadriel was even born there.

[He goes on to explain that due to the Numenorians (Men) and their jealousy of the Elves' immortality made sure that nobody could have nice things, and travel there now became a one-way trip for Elves only.]

To Homer the underworld was a terrible place, grim and dark for the good and the wicked alike. Even the great hero, Achilles, said that he would rather be a slave in the land of the living than king of all the dead. Life and glory was all one had. The dead were nothing but faint shades.

It was only later that the myth changed and a garden of paradise for the spirits of the worthy to enjoy for eternity was included in the underworld.

[Lindir still looks slightly disturbed by the idea, but he's also a bit curious now.]

You say this is a myth. Do you mean to say it was a created story? One would easily discover the untruth, would they not?

The story described the world as they understood it. Their ships were primitive at the time; they couldn't sail far, or into open ocean. All they knew was that the waters continued to the west to a distance beyond their reckoning, and that the sun appeared to sink into those waters, down into another land.

As their understanding of the world changed, so did their stories.

[He takes a moment to consider that.]

I suppose if they were not blessed by the Valar such as my own people, one could not know for certain what lay beyond. It must be saddening to have that uncertainty.

Uncertainly is part of being human. It's the war we're always fighting against, with death the greatest uncertainty of them all. Perhaps someday there will be a way to find answers, to talk to God, but--[He shrugs.]--until that day, we live in darkness.

[By the look on Lindir's face, he's having a difficult time understanding fully, but certainly trying. His tone in scholarly.]

The fate of Men after death is known only to Eru Ilúvatar himself, but it is said that it is Men, not Elves, who will be allowed to take part in the Second Music. It is not something my own kind often think about, but in that way Men may even surpass Elf-kind.

It's an interesting trade off, certainly. Your kind have knowledge and immortality. Men have the promise of even greater things, but have to take it on faith while they suffer in life.

Are all mortals said to take part in the Second Music, or is it reserved for only the best of mortals?

It is reserved for Men, the second-born, only. It is not known to us what happens to Dwarves after their death, but they are not mentioned as part of the Second Music.

[A pause, then he turns to Belloq.]

And what of the beliefs of your kin?

Belloq Log

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technically there's an obscure case but it's not clear cut...

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there's also "fading" and some other stuff in regards to age, but it's all very unclear in canon.

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